I TAKE YOU NOW TO THE MIDDLE of a conversation I had in my living room with this weird guy who showed up and wanted to ask a bunch of questions. He had a long white beard and a Greek accent.
Me: C’mon, Soc — you’re talking about The Republicans’ deluded base, here. You know, the people agitating for tax cuts for their boss’s boss’s boss? What possible use could they be to the Democrats?
Socrates: I can see I’m outmatched here, and must bow to your superior wisdom in this matter. I just have one or two questions, and I was hoping you could enlighten my ignorance.
Me: Sure, Soc. Shoot.
Socrates: Who are these people you call the “base” of the Republican Party?
Me: Oh, you know … working stiffs … people in our society who are more or less powerless. People with stagnant wages, maybe just a high school education, who have little or no power in the workplace or the rest of society, and feel some vicarious empowerment when they hear Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity “speaking up for them.”
Socrates: They speak for them, do they?
Me: Well, of course. You know, against the dirty, heathen liberals who want to turn America into a totalitarian, socialist hellscape?
Socrates (aghast): The Democrats want to do that?!
Me: Are you serious? No, of course not!
Socrates: Well, that’s a relief. I just wonder then: Why are they not voting for Democrats? They used to, in huge numbers, as I recall.
Me: I already told you — the Republicans have the wool pulled over their eyes.
Socrates: But I still don’t understand: Why did they stop voting for Democrats? I remember quite a long period when people like that voted overwhelmingly for Democrats, every single election, starting in 1932.
Me: Well, you know, that was a different time, then …
Socrates: Really? And how was it different?
Me: Well, to begin with, there was the Great Depression, which threw everyone out of work. The Republican response was: Let charity take care of the indigent, and let The Market right itself. Democrats had specific, concrete plans to help the people who were hurting … and so the Republicans just got killed in the ’32 and ’36 elections.
Socrates: Ah, so the Republicans learned their lesson, and sing a different tune, now?
Me: Well, of course they — you know, come to think of it, no. They are pretty much saying and doing the same things now as they did then.
Socrates: Then I’m still confused — why are all those poor farmers and minimum-wage earners and economically hurting people now voting for Republicans?
Me: I already told you — the Republicans are appealing to their fears and prejudices!
Socrates: I see. Let me ask you: Have you ever experienced feelings of fear, and even prejudice, within yourself?
Me (thinking): Oh, sure. It’s probably a universal human experience, to some extent.
Socrates: Did you enjoy it?
Me: What, feeling those things? No, I guess not — not deeply, anyway. Who wants to be afraid? Anyway, what’s your point?
Socrates: Do you think the people who now are caught up in the Republicans’ fear-mongering and pandering to prejudices are enjoying the experience — I mean, really, deeply enjoying it?
Me: Um, probably not …
Socrates: Then why do they allow the Republicans to keep doing it?
Me: You lost me.
Socrates: As we’ve established already, not only are they powerless, but their prejudices and fears are only adding to their misery. Isn’t that true?
Me: I’ve never thought of it that way, but yes, I guess you’re right. What the heck is wrong with them?
Socrates: Do you remember the impassioned speech given at the 2008 Democratic National Convention — the one everyone remembers — where the speaker eloquently called for huge amounts of assistance for struggling family farmers, a living wage for all American workers, card-check legislation to help workers get some power in the workplace, and shooting barbs at the Republican rich, “lolling obscenely in their opera boxes”?
Me: Um … (thinking) … No, actually I don’t.
Socrates: Neither do I. Do you want to help people who are trapped in economic stagnation, and are being exploited with fear and prejudice?
Me: Well, yeah, that’s a large part of the reason I’m a Democrat.
Socrates: Well, how can you help them?
Me: Like I said, they are pretty much beyond help …
Socrates (now genuinely shocked): You don’t really believe that, do you?
Me: Well, what can we do for those people?
Socrates: “Those people”? Didn’t you describe them yourself as, “Working stiffs … people in our society who are more or less powerless. People with stagnant wages, maybe just a high school education, who have little or no power in the workplace or the rest of society”?
Me: Yes, that’s right: the Republican base.
Socrates: We also went over how the Democrats gained a large and enduring majority in the past by coming up with specific, concrete plans to help people who were hurting, did we not?
Me (dawning realization): Uh, yes, I guess so. But what about the social issues — abortion, gay rights and so on?
Socrates: Think about this for a moment. How much does the status of gay marriage or the legal status of abortion increase their misery on a daily basis, in the course of living out their day-to-day existence?
Me: On a practical, day-to-day basis? Probably not much. Not much at all, really.
Socrates: And how much does the fact that they are, in your words, “people in our society who are more or less powerless … with stagnant wages, maybe just a high school education, who have little or no power in the workplace or the rest of society” — how much does that make their lives harder, on a daily basis?
Me: I imagine it’s a constant, grinding bummer …
Socrates: So, if you offered a whole list of ways to help them with those concrete, constantly lived, ever-present miseries — in fact, if you organized your agenda around those issues, and hit the talking points constantly — do you imagine they might just consider giving your party a strong and enduring governing majority?
Matt Talbot is a writer and poet, as well as an old Benicia hand. He works for a tech start-up in San Francisco.
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You will never make it as a comedian.
Agreed.
Worthless
Benicia Herald-The weekly pieces by the liberal contributors that do nothing but attack everything Republican and promote all that is Democratic are getting old. Really seems like propaganda and nothing more. Time to move on with something constructive?
You think we publish too many liberal contributions, “Benician” thinks we run too many conservatives. I guess we must be doing something right. Ed.
Fair and balanced Ed.? How about checking out your own search feature (Opinions) for just this year and look at the Liberal vs. Conservative posts….Of course I understand that you post pieces sent in to your paper, the scales are leaning very much to the left. Just saying, guess your paper is on the same page as most of the MSM, promoting the left wing agenda above all else.
The good news is there is a solution to the problem you perceive. It involves your keyboard and the construction of an 800- to 1,000-word opinion piece on the subject of your choosing. As with all contributors to The Herald, the newspaper puts no limitation on your subject matter (undercutting, I’m afraid, any claim that we are biased one way or the other; if we get more “liberal” contributions than “conservative,” I’ll remind you of the political makeup of the city of Benicia).
I will, however, need a real name to attach to your oped. Ed.
Watching,
In the almost four years I have been contributing to the Herald, only once has the Editor stepped in pertaining to content, and he did so for good reason; I wrote a piece on Ted Kennedy, between the time sent and the expected publication, the Senator passed away. The piece was correctly pulled. Regardless of the Editor’s personal politics, he has at no time allowed them to impact anything I have written.
I would encourage you to take him up on the challenge and contribute a piece to the paper.
Matt implies that the Democratic Party doesn’t do enough to help the so-called working stiffs. He doesn’t directly say that, but the implication is clearly there in the last paragraph.
How is that Democratic propaganda?
Democratic or liberal. You find one thing in the opinion piece that you say “doesn’t say that, but the implication is clearly there” and that is the theme of the entire piece? Matt is a self described liberal BA and is yes does promote his beliefs.
Matt takes some swats at both Republicans and Democrats in this particular piece. You said that this was Democratic propaganda, but obviously criticizing Democrat is not Democratic propaganda.
Excellent stuff as always Matt. I wonder if any of the other commenters even know what the Socratic method is?
Real American I do believe you use it all the time. I have no problem with it except you never get any answers.
Here is another recent conversation that might interest the community…
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/04/11/krug
Socrates said, “So, if you offered a whole list of ways to help them with those concrete, constantly lived, ever-present miseries — in fact, if you organized your agenda around those issues, and hit the talking points constantly — do you imagine they might just consider giving your party a strong and enduring governing majority?”
Matt’s Socrates sounds suspiciously like a conservative. Unfortunately, Matt (is wrong about the conservative base. They are not “people in our society who are more or less powerless … with stagnant wages, maybe just a high school education, who have little or no power in the workplace or the rest of society.” This definition says more about Matt’s elitist progressive intellectual snobbery than it does about the 49% of Americans who voted Republican in the last election or the millions of citizens who probably didn’t vote at all because they’ve completely given on Congress and the White House.
The good news is Matt is obviously doing some serious critical thinking here. Keep going with that, Matt!
optimisterb, I agree that no-one should use derogatory labels about people who support a political party. To write off 49% of the population is to write off millions of our fellow Americans. I usually vote Democratic, and I’m offended whenever a right-wing conservative makes ugly blanket statements about Democrats or Liberals.
On a related note, we have two main political parties, so people generally feel they have to join one or the other, which means that there’s a whole lot of diversity within either party. So it’s really inappropriate to make a blanket statement about either party.
Having said that, I agree with Matt’s main thought that the common people are not be served well by the Republicans. Or the Democrats.
One last thing: I’m good friends with Matt, I’ve known him for more than a decade. Progressive, yes, and that’s a good quality. Intellectual, yes, also a good quality. An elitist snob? No.
I not know much about only a little socrates and christian reading all together. I brought up read and study Gilgamesh who say —- Seek life instead of riches, save yourself.
And too, reading now you own american philospoer Sitting Bull that say——— Now that we are poor, we are free. No white man controls our footsteps.
Matt stated: Democrats had specific, concrete plans to help the people who were hurting … and so the Republicans just got killed in the ’32
Matt, help me here; Those specific concrete plans, were developed then in ’31-’32 time frame I take it and based on those plans the electorate had a clear choice in 1932?
Sorry folks this poor fellow is a fake. I do believe he is a made up name. The big problem is who on this Benicia Herald run is trying to pull the wool over our eyes. I do believe I have figured it out. So lets procced without this fake.
I am taqking about you Rojee. Just tell us what country you are from.. You have already disclosed that you voted for President Obama illegilly. Whats next on your agenda of a fake ID. Just assking. I hope you will answer or I will out you.
The Republican base is comprised of:
1) those who vote on only one issue: abortion. Nothing else matters.
2) scared whites who can’t come to grips with the diversification of the American populace. There’s a reason the GOP implemented the ‘Southern Strategy’, a reason why it once worked, and a reason why it no longer does.
3) Neocons. Every war is a good war. When in doubt, bomb.
4) Banksters/Wall Streeters. The record disparity between the wealthy and the rest isn’t wide enough.
What makes it extremely difficult for some of 1&2 above to flip to the Democrats:
While the GOP is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Banksters, too many Dems are sympathetic to them.
Benician, One the Republican “Base” is a dying breed. You may find that many people in the Independent catagory are actually Conservatives and believe many Republicans are just as bad as Democrats. Conservatives are for more issues than just abortion. The man currently on trial for late term, actually just after birth abortions is a good example of why this medical procedure should be looked at immediately. The liberal establishment is in a gun control frenzy about “Saving Just One Kid” is worth strict controls being placed on gun ownership in this nation. Thousands of children are aborted every day in this nation, that is killed, and the liberal establishment does not care one bit. The POTUS while serving as a State Senator introduced two bills promoting late term abortion.
I heard today that 2.7 Trillion dollars was collected this tax season, the POTUS budget is over 3.7 trillion. The 2.7 figure is the largest IRS tax collection in the history of the country, would seem there is in fact a spending problem and not a revenue problem. If I make “X” every year, I just can’t nor can you spend X+Y. We do not have Y in our accounts so we should not be spending it as happens with the government today. The financial condition of this nation is by and far the most important issue which is put on the back burner all the time with issues like gay marriage, immigration, etc.
How much do we as a nation spend on illega immigration? Any idea at all, of course not, that data is kept from the citizens as we would revolt if we really knew.
Diversity, I think if you look at history you will find the liberal establishment is the party of racist practice. The southern Democrats were the slave owners, A Republican President freed the slaves, the KKK was created by the Democrats. Seems one of our long time Democratic Senators dies not too many years ago, he was a long term member of the KKK. The entire social welfare system was designed by Democrats and promotes hooking people on government support and punishes those that attempt to free themselves with work.
Every war is a good war? I think you will find the Democrats are involved in many little wars. I worked under the Clinton Administration’s command while flying the the AF back then. Clinton loved to have little conflicts in third world contries, that was pre drone time. Both parties like wars and armed conflicts, they are for the most part owned by the ultra rich companies that profit from the conflicts. Obama himself is and has been involved in Iraq, Afganistan and many other Middle Eastern/African countries.
Remember little Timmy Gueitner? Wall street banker, those initial bailouts Bush started, were continued by Obama and in fact they spent a great deal of money to put him into office. They make huge sums of money from the government, look into the admin costs alone for the 50 million EBT cards issued to food stamp receiptants, banks make billions of dollars just passing out the cards.
Unless and until the Liberals understand that the wool is being pulled over their eyes by the Geroge Soros owned man sitting in the WH, these silly little word wars will continue.
Geez…where to begin?
“Conservatives are for more issues than just abortion. ”
Some are, but you have an entire bloc…the evangelicals, who vote on the one issue. The GOP can’t win elections without this bloc, so they cater to them. Funny how many from this pro-“life” group has no trouble with the death penalty or needless wars. And, if you don’t want abortion, how about creating an environment…better education, eliminating poverty, contraceptives…that would reduce the number?
“The 2.7 figure is the largest IRS tax collection in the history of the country”
The population will always grow. Of course tax collection will grow, as well.
” would seem there is in fact a spending problem and not a revenue problem.”
Individual Income Tax Revenue as share of GDP in 2011: 7.3% in 2000: 10.2%
Corporate Tax Revenue as share of GDP in 2011: 1.2% in 2000: 2.1%
We have a revenue problem.
” the KKK was created by the Democrats. Seems one of our long time Democratic Senators dies not too many years ago, he was a long term member of the KKK.”
The Democrats who created the KKK would be Republicans now. They flipped during the Civil RIghts era. I ponder why I’m wasting my time typing this because, surely, you know this. It is a Livesay/DDL level of dishonesty, and makes me reluctant to argue with you, but for the benefit of readers here who might otherwise be fooled, I will. Also, as you also most likely know, the Democratic senator you site recanted his KKK days and became a true leader in both the civil rights and anti-dumb war movements.
” Both parties like wars and armed conflicts, they are for the most part owned by the ultra rich companies that profit from the conflicts. Obama himself is and has been involved in Iraq, Afganistan and many other Middle Eastern/African countries.”
Name the last war started by a Democrat. Vietnam…and you can even argue Eisenhower’s support of the French in the Franco-Vietnamese war laid the groundwork for our involvement. To say Obama was involved in Iraq is yet more dishonest lunacy. He was against the war before it started…at a time when it was an unpopular position. He inherited the war when he took office. We’re now out. As we will be in Afghanistan by next year.
“Remember little Timmy Gueitner? Wall street banker, those initial bailouts Bush started, were continued by Obama and in fact they spent a great deal of money to put him into office.”
I’m not happy with Obama’s relationship with the banks. Still, as I said in my original…while many Dems are sympathetic to the banks, the GOP is a wholly owned subsidiary.
“Unless and until the Liberals understand that the wool is being pulled over their eyes by the Geroge Soros owned man sitting in the WH”
Yet more talking out of your a**. What does George Soros have to do with anything? Only the GOP can have wealthy supporters? Are Rethugs owned by the Koch brothers? That would be much more true, as they heavily finance ALEC, whose purpose is to write laws for Rethugs to pass.
You’re entire post is nonsensical drivel. Time to find a new hobby.
Benician who was President when WWI, WWII and Korean war started? What is the Dems voting bloc? They do have one. Just a couple of important questions that should be cleared up.
Benician has not got a clue. I actually have been into combat shooting events dreamed up and ordered by Clinton. I have many friends still in military assignments, Obama just like all presidents have their feet wet in many third world conflicts. Sometimes they get out of control and events like Bengahazi happen. Obama, Bush I and II, Clinton, Carter, Nixon, Reagan, Ford??? were all involved in military matters that are kept from the public. I give up, no matter how many times you show Benician an Apple we will be told we are stupid and that the Apple is really an Orange.
I give, you and the rest of the liberal’s have all the answers. If it does not fit into the little mold designed by your keepers and presented during your political education it is not true. If all else fails, just change the meaning of words or history to fit your little utopia.
Benician: Vietnam…and you can even argue Eisenhower’s support of the French in the Franco-Vietnamese war laid the groundwork for our involvement.
Wait, was Eisenhower a hero for warning against the Military Industrial Complex or did he start Vietnam?
Your attempt to accuse Eisenhower is crap. JFK was pulling us out of Vietnam and had tasked McNamara to work towards that end. LBJ stepped in and troop escalation immediately started. And who brought the numbers down? Just take a look:
Eisenhower: 1959 – 760
1960 – 900
Kennedy: 1961 – 3,025
1962 – 11,300
1963 – 16,300
Johnson: 1964 – 23,300
1965 – 184,300
1966 – 385,300
1967 – 485,600
1968 – 536,100
Nixon:1969 – 475,200
1970 – 334,600
1971 – 156,800
1972 – 24,200
1973 – 50
Your comments are total BS
I’ve never had a high opinion of Nixon but he did pull myself and others out of Viet Nam early
I am a very Conservative Republican. Guess what I do support gay marriage, I believe a woman has right to chose {there are exceptions}, I am for immigration reform but the border must be secured. Just a few of my beliefs. Do I pass the litmus test. Most of the issues that I stated are personal views and should not be considered in political view points. I also support lower taxes for all and also corporations. Medicare and Social Security restructured. No reduction in benefits. There are ways to do it and I have stated them. I am also against Obamacare as it stands now. There are some very good things in the bill. As a whole it has too many opt out loop holes. The Kaiser Staff model for healthcare is a very good healthcare plan. I think you will see that model moving forward to resolve healthcare issues. Try this one I am a member of the NRA. I think background checks are a good thing. I have no problem with it. But I will tell you one thing I do not like is the added on taxes in every utility, phone and other bills no matter how small to support an agenda driven theme. I also think renewable energy should get the same support as does oil, natural gas and coal. Must stand on their own. Electric cars need not be supsidized either. Make it on your own. We have seen recently two check and a couple more are on there way. There goes more tax payer money. Also I believe we should not have invested government money in GM or Chrysler to survive. Let them go bankrupt. They would have reorganized and been much better than they are at present. I do believe Ford is doing OK. Pure union political move by President Obama. His trade off to the union was now go and organize the rest of the public work force. I also believe in oil drilling and fracking. There are many regs that will make it clean. It is the future. Manufacturing is and will come back to America. India is building a mill in America. You know why? Because of energy cost. Couple that with our high tech in manufacturing and away we go. Just a few of my beliefs. I do not think I am some far right wing nut.. Just a very logical thinking person that has good ideas.
Very well stated Bob, I noticed you usually ditch the car and walk to your dowtown destinations. Unlike many who continually want the government to solve the enviromental issues and point fingers and don’t want to be inconvienenced by doing something themselves.
I commend you for helping the enviroment and urge others to walk or bicycle to their local destinations
.
Also equal pay for women. All human rights. Voter ID, must have proof of citizenship to vote. That is simple you have eighteen years to take care of that. Do all these make me a bad right wingnut? I do not think so. I do not like activist judges. Agenda driven elected officials. I could go on for ever on very fundamental issues and that is what these are. Again a very independent clear thinking American citizen.
Thanks. I do try to lead by example. It does appear the Enviro Greenies do not pay attention.