JUST A BRIEF REVIEW OF THE DEDICATED EFFORTS of the Republican Party to bring our elections and electoral system into happy accord with our vaunted American exceptionalism. The earlier pieces are old news to you by now, but the fit with the newer developments suggests a need to view it all together. Taken that way, it provides a window into the heart and soul of the current Republican Party and to its commitments.
Folks may have forgotten, but one of the most laudable efforts at perfectionism in the last election began with the GOP push to make voter registration pure and extremely difficult. (So difficult that the League of Women Voters in Florida pulled out. Hard to get more high-minded and nonpartisan than the League — but why not have that go at something even higher!) This was followed by that GOP voter registration program into which the party sank some very large change; soon it was discovered, however, that the company running it was using pretty girls to fish for Republican registrations, switching from “doing a survey” to “just happen to have some registration forms with me.” That was coupled with the good old reliable stand in the sun and register folks and at the end of a weary day file the forms filled out by Democrats into the nearest trash container. Naturally, Republicans were shocked, shocked when this became public knowledge and are to be commended for pulling out.
Next, of course, was the GOP drive to clean up our elections by requiring voter ID at the voting booth. That personal voter fraud — individuals individually faking identification — is clearly considered by voting experts to be a very minor, almost non-existent problem doesn’t appear to the GOP to be a very compelling argument against purity. Understand that this isn’t about registration. Folks are already on the rolls. This is about coming up with photo identification at the voting booth, something those without driver’s license, for example, often don’t have. That middle class professionals don’t think this a particularly tough requirement is, in part, a function of their distance from the lives of a large cohort of our voting population. But, again, why not go the extra mile in the interests of that essential purity. It is vital to remember that this particular, and very effective, tactic is still very much alive.
Then, of course, there was the Mississippi catch-22 dilemma that highlighted both the purpose and results of these requirements: Require photo ID to vote; require birth certificate to obtain photo ID; but require photo ID to get birth certificate. All of which turned out to be vastly more of a problem for the poor, the elderly, the young and the darker-hued than the country club set, and many thousands didn’t make the vote — but who do you want picking our leaders anyway?
This was followed by the practice in GOP-led states of drastically reducing voting days and hours. We were all privileged to witness the results on election night: huge, long lines of folks waiting four, five, six hours — and more! — to vote. Tens of thousands walked away in disgust and fatigue, a couple hundred thousand in Florida alone. But, hey, whoever said voting should be easy? You want democracy, brothers and sisters? It’s a privilege — you hunker down and work for it! If you’re too self-centered and indolent to stand in line in the heat, rain or snow for a few hours to exercise your franchise, who wants you voting anyway?
Was this planned? Was it part of some strategy at overcoming numbers with suppression? Several Republican officials in Florida, including former Gov. (and former Republican) Charlie Crist, have confirmed that this was studied and planned party policy. But I believe it is crucial to forgo the accusations. What is more important than simon-pure elections? And really, can anyone doubt the total commitment of the GOP to that end?
We must look ahead to the new era of possibilities raised by the results of the last election. By way of introduction, it is helpful to note that the recasting of the electoral map in 2010, in a gerrymandering process beautifully executed by Republican governors and legislators, resulted in the curious outcome of a million more Democratic votes than Republican for House races nationally — but 33 more Republican-won seats. Really breathtaking in planning and execution. The brilliant success of this creative process has sparked an array of fascinating Republican plans for the future, among them a scheme to shift from statewide votes determining presidential elections to voting for electors by Congressional district. Had this policy been followed in the last election, Romney would have claimed the presidency — even as five million more voters chose Obama!
Reince Priebus, the prior and re-elected head of the Republican National Committee, believes Wisconsin and other battleground states should, following the charms of such a maneuver, change the way they allocate their Electoral College votes. David Weigel, writing in Slate on Jan. 14, quotes Priebus as saying “it’s something that a lot of states that have been consistently blue that are fully controlled red ought to be looking at.” Such a system “gives more local control” to the states, he argued.
Alas, early enthusiasm for this studied effort to bring democracy closer to the people has abated somewhat. But among so-called battleground states where Obama won and where legislatures are in the hands of the GOP, there may yet be some movement in this direction. We can but hope.
So let’s sum up. If you’re a Republican, you make voter registration as difficult as possible, scare off even the League of Women Voters, then follow with an aborted GOP voter registration scheme into which you funnel streams of cash. You then have to deep-six that effort when the public learns that it is riddled with illegal practices.
If you’re Republican, you set up catch-22 operations like that in Mississippi, which guarantee denial of voting rights to thousands who have no way to register.
If you’re Republican, you con the public into believing that voter ID is a crucial step in preventing voter fraud, when its true purpose is to block large constituencies from voting.
And following all of that, if you’re the head of the Republican Party, you encourage an effort to change the rules of the voting game and tally electoral votes by congressional district rather than state — after you have shaped those districts.
The simple question confronting a democracy armed with these realities is this: Are these the folks you want running the country?
Jerome Page is a Benicia resident.
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You are correct in that it is designed to block large groups of people from voting. That group is those who are not legally allowed to vote. Why is that so bad? That is in fact called fraud and there is plenty of it going around. I have to show my ID to board a plane, to use a credit card and many other things. We should have to show an ID to perform one of the most important tasks in our land and make sure that I am actually registered and legal to do so. Why is that so difficult to understand. Obama just doesn’t want to block many of the illegal votes that got him into his present job.
But apparently studies of how many occurrences of voter fraud exist show trivialities, while instances of humongous voter delays are gargantuan, so who has lost in the long run? The real voter, not the fraudulent one…We are NOT a nation of shallow, elitist nutcases, we are a diversified collection of former immigrants ALL still eager to better our life’s pursuits. I have no compassion for, but only contempt for elitists. The French Revolution did away with many in a prior civilization, beware of creating another such Revolution, the Republican Party may self-extinguish itself. Shame on you shallow twits—pb
In the end we ALL have to ask ourselves, are we part of the problem(s) or part of the solution(s)? The evidence appears enormous that we are a species in dire straits of destroying ourselves bit by stupid bit. Good luck, all, what are our individual and collective aspirations? I refuse to hide under the bed and watch individual and/or group mediocrity and/or economic greed or sloth consume us. Peter Bray
From the above article…
“Let’s sum up…The simple question confronting a democracy armed with these realities is this: Are these the folks you want running the country?”
Mr. Page, an excerpt from the article (below) may draw your interest, based on your words and thoughts from the past few months.
” The Republican Party is not simply wedded to a vicious anti-intellectualism;it scorns the very notion of reason and embraces ignorance as the basis for community. This is evident not only in the rejection of science, evidence and reason as the foundation of an an informed community, but also in the embrace of fundamentalist positions that pander to ignorance as a basis for shutting down dissent, mobilizing supporters and retooling American education as a business,a training site to initiate the young into a world where the corporate, financial and military elite decide their needs, desires and future.”
http://www.alternet.org/has-america-become-authoritarian-state?paging=off
Robert Livesay, please pay attention to this exerpt from linked article above:
“For [C.Wright] Mills, authoritarian politics develop[s], in part, by making the operations of power invisible while weaving a network of lies and deceptions through what might be called a politics of disconnect. That is, a politics that focuses on isolated issues that serve to erase the broader relations and historical contexts that give them meaning. These isolated issues become flashpoints in a cultural and political discourse that hide not merely the operations of power, but also the resurgence of authoritarian ideologies, modes of governance, policies and social formations that put any viable notion of democracy at risk. Decontextualized ideas and issues, coupled with the overflow of information produced by the new electronic media, make it more difficult to create narratives that offer historical understanding, relational connections and developmental sequences. The fragmentation of ideas and the cascade of information reinforce new modes of depoliticization and authoritarianism.”
Will that article that you reference is pure left wing Liberal Socialist propaganda. The use of the term authoritarian is a perfect description of President Obama and his Liberal Socialist followers. President Obama is destroying the middle class while all along keeping the poor under his complete control. The President continues to up the poor and the middle class income levels All along telling these folks that they are being held back by the policies of the Republican party. Remember you Liberal Socialist the growth for the last four years is not what this country needs to sustain this wonderful country. Just take a look at the fourth quarter of 2012. No exccuses please, it is what it is. I do believe for the last four years those policies are the policies of the Liberal Socialist. The fiscal cliff was recognized by both parties with different solutions. It was not made up. The national debt of 16.5 tril is not made up. We see it every day. The Presidents soutions are not working. He cares so much for the poor and middle class that he lowered the S/S payroll tax by two percent. Sound good? Well now try this he just upped it back to where it should have stayed without even mentioning it to the payroll tax hard working lower and middle class folks of this country. The President is not your savior he is playing you for fools. His energy policies are not to improve the country but to destroy it. Take a look at what is happening in Texas on that new pipeline of about 180 miles. Hydrogen to make clean the air at the refineries. The Monterey oil shale field in California.Think Bakken. Silicon Valley is working on new tech to make it much cleaner to extract. Put that with hydrogen and you may well not need all this waiste of federal money {yes your tax payers dollars} that is going no where fast on electric cars and bankrupt solar companies. Is that what you expected from your Liberal Socialist president? I sure hope not. You are now going to get the surprise of your life on Obamacare. Just watch your personal costs sky rocket. There are some very good things in Obamacare that shouild and will be incorporated into a viable healthcare system. Obamacare is not in total the answer. That is my thoughts for the moment. They will keep coming.
R.L., you label anything with which you disagree as “propaganda.” Propaganda is pseudo-information that is cynically prepared by a dishonest person to sway the opinions of other people to favor or conform with his own wishes, regardless of factual truth.
I don’t believe you really mean to be as dishonest as the imaginary propagandists you despise. Your imagination in such cases is victimized by participation is conspiracy-theory outlook. You listen to idiots.
Your preferred energy policy suggests you’re blind as a bat. Take a trip through Appalachia, at least into those areas where the coal companies will allow you to go and see the results of top-raping 500+ mountain-tops and dumping rubble into old ravines. Take a trip though Alberta or Idaho where the oil-sand operators will let you drive, and see the hell-scapes created by dirty oil recovery. Breath the air where great forests have been replaced by smoke-plumes and black dust. And you wish this on the central coast area of California?
Where do profits for a few balance out with habitat impairment and ecological destruction for the many?
Then, I ask you what I asked a while ago of Dennis Lund: “ARE YOU NUTS ?”
Sorry, Bob L., I know you can’t tell the difference between sanity and insanity.
I know that you know how to read, Bob Livesay. I wish merely that you would do it, and do it carefully.
2010, in a gerrymandering process beautifully executed by Republican governors and legislators, resulted in the curious outcome of a million more Democratic votes than Republican for House races nationally — but 33 more Republican-won seats
One might be led to think this outcome has never occurred before. The facts indicate otherwise:
Year vote diff.in Millions (D over R) Net change (+ = D gain, – = D loss)
1992 5.0 -9
1984 4.3 -16
1980 2.0 -34
1978 5.0 -15
1976 10.0 +1
1972 4.5 -13
1968 1.8 -5
Yes, Dennis, that to which you refer has happened as you indicate, but not as a result of the redistricting fakery we call gerrymandering, as was most recently the case. Note that public furore over proposed, new gerrymandering in several states has forced all but one state to drop those proposals, at least for now.
Those bastard Republicans!
So even though this has occurred (on one level or another) about once every three Congressional elections, this time you KNOW it was the Republicans fault!
So what was the cause on the previoys seven occurances?
The last sentence should read:
So what was the cause on the previous seven occurrences?
Dennis, you seem to be only half awake.
I note you do not offer a response or a reasonable explanation as to why this results have occurred, instead you blame others without a serious analysis of alternative explanations.
It is always easy to demonize the opposition, rather than to look at causations of a repeatted pattern.
Crying ‘gerrymandering’ by Demoncrats is laughable, as that is an art honed to perfection by Dems.
Th
Dennis, dear fellow, please take your exhortation to heart and apply it to yourself?
Sure, little is new under the sun. Dems have gerrymandered at times in some places. We’re all human, which means we are borderline muck-ups who couldn’t even survive living like monkeys! They have us beat in the departments of clarity and honesty. Republicans, however, try to take up gerrymandering now as a life-saving, strategic mainstay, since their messages appeal only to their base and make no converts, save for inexplicable cases such as you.
Much in politics has the nature of optical illusion. The determining factor in, for instance, the stair-step diagram, lies in the viewer’s inclination to see it as from above or below. That has serious implication for us.
Robert I love Gerrymandering. How we missed California I will never know. The Liberals cannot stand when their ideas work against them. You may end up with every house member in California and guess what you will still not take the house back anytime soon. Better go take a look Robert. I would appreciate your prediction on what house seats they will take and how many. Do you know or are you just on a fishing trip.
Livesay, when you get your thoughts together more than temporarily, maybe I’ll start to listen to you. Your trouble has always been to distinguish baby from bath water. You see only worst-case scenarios of anything you call “socialism.” You’re always trying to throw out dirty bath water with sweet baby in it. The result is, you never seem really to know what you’re talking about.
Please explain in detail Robert Shelby.
Bob Livesay, your understanding of social and individual factors in public value or life is sadly ill-grounded and unbalanced. You never got enough general education and broad experience early enough. Hence, reading newspapers with your poorly cultivated mind won’t provide it. That’s why I can’t care much for what you write. It gives me little more than your positive or negative opinions. Loose opinions are mostly rubbish. Sorry, Bob. I know that like Dennis and Jim you want to be a good fellow and influence others, too.
Robert Shelby I do not mind you telling me I do not know what I am talking about. The only problem is that is all you say. Just the same old talk but I will admit much more civil. I made some statements in my comment. Now tell me just what is it I do not know what I am talking about. Is it just the fact that I use the words Liberal Socialist? It the President a Democrast? Yes. Is the President very left leaning? Yes. Therefore he is a Liberal. Are the Presidents policies very Socialist? Many are. So Robert now is your chance to refute my calling the President a Liberal Socialist. They go hand in hand.
Livesay, for you, all you call “socialist” is bad. But, you draw social security, don’t you? You have many other public benefits that a state of nature cannot provide. These things, including paved streets, freeways, bridges and shopping malls, seaports and civic centers are products of society, and therefore obvious parts of the “sweet baby” in the bath. The bath-water holds the dirt & soap you want to throw out. You always talk like you’re ready to throw out baby too, like a blind nanny. If you would stick to dictionary definitions and Political Science understandings of Socialism, you wouldn’t be so prejudicially argumentative. You might become more analytical in your treatment of subjects, and less bombastic. Hence, I can only find that your use of the word “socialist” is as an emotional growl-word. It reveals more about something inside you than about anything outside. It shows your fear for possible injustice happening in an imaginary future to a purely hypothetical version of your by-then DEAD SELF. Why not wake up and get real?
http://www.alternet.org/economy/every-treasured-progressive-reform-abolition-slavery-has-been-called-socialism
Robert today is a big day for the bay area. Super Bowl Sunday. I do hope you will be cheering the 49ers on. Now I am not sure about your beloved Nancy Pelosi. Shelby you do know she is from Baltimore. Her father and brother were both mayors of Baltimore City. Just who do you think Nancy will be cheering for? I think Baltimore.
Who cares for who Pelosi is rooting for? Does Livesay have any other real or imagined demons or Boogey men or ladies under his bed? Get real…pb
Yes I do. I will start with you Peter.
Bob Livesay: Your remarks have fallen into a new hole, or the same old one…they are juvenile and sophomorish…Good luck if you discover anything new on the planet, your dusty Victrola under a box in the closet, needs a new needle…pb
Again Peter silly remarks that mean nothing except to you. Stop crying and start looking around at what is happening. Great things are happening and you can not see them. Monterey shale oil field, new tech for recoverery and emissions. Peter join the real world of advancement and not some whimsical world of make believe. I am up on things and look forward to all the adevancements rather than want them held back by Liberal Socialist. Yes I dld say Liberal Socialist. Get use to it or just quit reading and commenting on my comments. It is a bright sunny future for all of us. Guess what you might even like it.
BOB Livesay: Frogs will fly when you will have something new and exciting to say–Good luck with that–pb
I believe Peter I have been talking about the Monterey Shale Oil field for sometime now. Unless you heard it from me your only source is the SF Chronicle which did have an article in the Sunday paper about the field. That is very exciting and for sure new to you and all the Liberals in California. You see Peter I am on top of things. So my advise to you is just watch and follow what I am saying. It will keep you and your Liberal friends up-to-date on just what is going to drive this state and country. I will assure you Peter it will not be Poetry.
Bob Livesay:
Your chronic badmouthing of “socialist/liberals” and other boogeymen and women precedes you, you’re just an old sourpuss of negativity and misogynistic yarping–I don’t follow you–Just make sure your shale oil pals don’t contaminate the ground water and underground geology with toxic contaminants…Think long-term before your dig or damage the world for all of us—You don’t appear to be a broad-band thinker, just another 2-drawer chest of ideology-stained underwear…pb
I suggest Peter you pay attention. None of what you are saying is going to happen. Keep up with the news and there would be no need for you to make a statement like that. I do suggest very strongly Peter that you take steps to enlighten your knowledge. Get your facts straight on Bob Livesay before you start your whimsical whinning.
Sorry, Bobbo Livesay, your credibility precedes you, so I tune out every time your exhaust pipe hits the page–You’re still in the Fourth Grade slapping your butt, thinking you’re entertaining, demeaning others, calling us “Socialist/Liberals,” until some one brighter and more knowledgeable than you demands you sit down and finish your own homework assignment…so blah, blah, blah back at ya…When you respect others, they may respect you—’til then you’re an old rusted exhaust pipe dragging on the ground, same old noise…same old exhaust…going nowhere…pb
Peter apparently you do not tune out. You read and respond. Confused on that statement. But I must admit I know you will so I just keep at it. You are unable to respond except in rhyme time nonsense. Peter I respect others when they make sound statements. I have never seen you do that. Try just for once to stop attacking anyone who does not agree with your sill whimsical rhyme time stuff. Peter thats all it is. Just come up with a solution and a statement of fact. Please Peter just try it.
Bob Livesay:
“Liberal/Socialists?”…who can begin to WANT to have a logical, coherent dialogue with you? You are as jaded and ideology-plagued as a finless mackerel… Just try thinking in rhyming forms Mr. Livesay, see if you can even enter that vastly unused portion of your skull…You belittle that which you have no perception of or talent with…that’s either moronic, juvenile, or dull……Just try it…If I spoke French must I speak in YOUR language, whatever that might be, to get you to follow me? How about you getting a translator to learn to speak in my language? And think in terms of “Liberal-Humanist” instead of “Liberal/Socialist” versus “Constipated Conservative,” my new evolving term for Conservatives–The world is not a fixed, granite money block that you have sole ownership of…it is malleable, evolutionary, sometimes intangible, and you may drop your half at a moment’s notice and it may shatter into a thousand diversified other people…Try that on for a mental sandwich–TechniColor, Bob, think Technicolor, it’s an old Technology, can you think in colors? How about shades of gray? Rhyming patterns will be next…stay tuned–Peter Bray
Bob Livesay, team sports have no real importance in our world. They are irrelevant to the problems we face and amount to public rituals of escape from daily life in the real world. I have no interest in who Nancy Pelosi cheers for. You, however, add what you suppose on to your pile of reasons to hate her. As for me, I have better things to do than watch the super bowl teams knock each other silly. I can hear the results on tonight’s news, but I don’t care who “wins.” The best part of the ceremonies will be Bionce singing at the start. Wrap yourself in the flag, Bobbie, and sit on a cold bench. In your back yard.
Robert Shelby you do not know what is even happening around you. Yes I love America and am very Patriotic. Yes I will stand during the playing and singing of our National Anthem. Yes I do respect our flag and I am very offend my your referring to it as a “silly, tri colored rag” as I believe most people wouild also. be. Yes Robert I also pray and am a believer. Sorry to bust your anti American bubble Robert Shelby.
The answer to Mr. Page’s question is, NO, these right-wing people are mostly unfit to run our country because they don’t believe in democracy further than they can manipulate and control it. They have no faith in The People, and KEEP faith only with those people they select or define as “good and real,” i.e., mainly themselves, the right-wingers. They have no faith in our population as a whole because it contains a growing majority opposed to them. They want all their bets to be won in advance by controlling legislators via their selfish concerns and fooling enough fog-headed voters for their 30% hard-core to win.
Republicans always claim “The Moral High Ground.” In substance, they stand on clouds of fraud, lies and the kind of manipulations they think are very clever. They care nothing for fairness but to themselves. They continually impute injustice to opponents and project their own chicanery on to everyone else.
This is no question but a claim: The rightists are just plain NUTS. They value a future in which American society serves property instead of people. They fear that taking proper care of The People will make them lose incentive to work like slaves. Then, people will quit work entirely because they care only about comfort for themselves, and never for doing good work for everybody’s benefit. Wingnuts see everyone in their own, wingnut mirror. Their concepts of everything abstract are defective, at best half-baked & superficial.
All anyone has to do is just wait for the regular suspects to comment. The same old thing. Their favorite tactic is to attack the folks like Bob Livesay, Dennis Lund and Jim. We are their enemy. Wordy and whimsical responces with no meaning or answers at all, All done with their poet language that no one even reads. All conservatives are nuts and we love our contry and the American Flag. Well Robert if loving the good old USA makes me nuts I guess I am. If singing patriotic songs and standing at attention during the pledge I guess I am nuts and very Patriotic. Now Robert just what does that make you? Anti American and for sure not Patriotic? I know both you and Peter appear to care about folks in your own way. Just tell me why you do not think a Conservative Patriotic American does not care about people? You both are wrong to attack the other side with personal attacks. But if that is the game you want to play I will get right to it. Just watch the personal attacks coming back from Robert Shelby. The Super Bowl was about as American and Patriotic as it gets.
Ah, yes, I should stand and salute The Super Bowl with tears in my eyes and choked up throat. You, Livesay, are a full-hearted empty-head, a numb-skull so conventional you can’t discern symbols and icons from objects or divine powers or tell where the nonsense about them begins. I love my friends and people in general, even you who live in the camp of my deluded enemies. I actually care about those enemies but detest their delusions. What attacks are there but personal ones? If I didn’t exist as a person, I’d have no enemies, right? I care at least as much for our country and its people as you do. I don’t get lost in my emotion over symbols. You, on the other hand, are like a sub-teenager. I’m sorry you have such trouble understanding any poetic language other than your own, which you are quite incapable of recognizing or analyzing.
As I said here come the personal attacks by Robert Shelby.
RMS Stated: have such trouble understanding any poetic language
That reminded me, I jotted this out the other day and sent it to one of the contributors as a rough draft. Since then I polished it up a bit:
The ‘Liberal-Humanist’?
By
Dennis Lund
Sounds of words so pale
Hiding reality
Making comrades’ sound swell.
Masking what they are,
Craving votes
Seeking to go far
Needing to be sly,
Better to be up front,
Taught by Saul, what a guy.
Perhaps used in jest,
To lighten the soul?
Reality put to test
Honesty is policy not
They know best,
Hoping you forgot.
If you doubt them wise
With words they smite
Pretending peace, such a guise.
Singular focus placed on blame
Targets chosen
Have they no shame?
Varied causes please ignore,
Bill does not fit
Lust for power, evermore.
Are they such dafts?
Failing to recognize,
sounds of our laughs?
Try:
5
7
5
Like this for example:
In the beginning,
There was ignorance and God
God died when Man thought.
Unicorn, unseen;
Flying Spaghetti Monster:
Real as any gods.
The Selfish Gene and
Carl Sagan’s Cosmos explain
more than any myth.
Thomas,
You are correct, it needs work. I am not a poet, make no claims to such, but was having a bit of fun. Your comments are appreciated.
DDL:
“Liberal-Humanist” was a hint about myself and no one else…in counter to Livesay’s all-engrossing, all encompassing “Liberal-Socialist” which applies only to some fictional Boogeyman that exists only under his bed…BUT, you Mr. Lund have to take a phrase from a person you hardly know and wrap it in your own Conservative, defaming-of-others hype…You guys destroy your own credibility…Tell me, as an engineering graduate from the UC system/south, how do you defend a total free-fall drop of WTC 1,2, & 7 and 7 was NOT even hit by an aircraft? And jet fuel does NOT burn hot enough to melt steel? Burning carpet and file papers melt steel? All the way to the ground? Flawlessly vertical? Bush’s administration was in office during that fiasco…Have Livesay chime in with his take on “real science” as he claims to be a self-claimed other voice on Mayor Patterson’s economic policies…Does he have any other “science” attributes?–PB
Peter you want to direct a comment to me? Do it and do not use others to put out your crap. I do think Peter you and Harvey should get together on this 9/.11 stuff. I just lost all respect for you. Sorry Peter you are just what you are a Liberal Socialist with no concern for any other folks except your Rhyme Time goofy out dated stuff. Peter stop playing the crying whinning blame game and get your silly act together. I do know one thing you will not read this post so you will not respond. You will use other folks to do your lame brain work.
Bob Livesay: From what I’ve read from you in the past two years you have no respect for anyone so I’m not offended in the least. You can only whine about Liberals and Progressives and call them Socialists as if that might demean us. Sorry, it doesn’t work, you are no authority for squat. And what you know about poetry wouldn’t fill a woodpecker’s hole…Go run for public office in Benicia and see how few votes you can muster. The original political whiner like Mr. Pugh and sometimes Dennis Lund… PB
Peter, you are reading far more into this then was intended, also (and I do not mean this in a condescending manner) giving yourself way too much credit, unless you consider yourself to be a peer of Kant.
All of the other stuff, mentioned? I think you have been having too many Lattes with Harvey.
DDL: You ideologues only sniff your own air…Harvey Rifkin is doing just fine. View a different book sometime and see the whole picture of humanity, not just the Made for Bumpkins Version—pb
Peter said: And jet fuel does NOT burn hot enough to melt steel?
I understood you to be an engineer, I may be mistaken on that point, as an engineer you would know that steel does not need to ‘melt’ in order to lose its modulus of elasticity, which decreases by a significant factor well below its actual melting point.
OH, Dennis! The buildings fell at free-fall speed! The modulus of elasticity yields progressively and slowly not explosively at free-fall speed…What was the fire source at the lower floors? With all concrete turning to rubble from hundreds of floors up all the way down to ground zero? Go listen to the dialogue of survivors. Forget it, stay with your Homogenized Form of Group thinking, it’s far safer I know. – pb
Peter,
Ahhh, so after the Bush-Cheney team masterminded the biggest political theft of the centuries, by forcing Democrats to create the butterfly ballot, by setting up police barricades in black communities, then causing the Florida State Courts to make an illegal ruling, then getting Scotus to rule 7-2 in their favor, they must have immediately started work on recruiting and training 18 Arabic terrorists to fly planes, (or maybe the plan was begun years ago?). After that they had to get the blue prints to the towers, wire all of the buildings, after trucking an 18 wheeler full of C-4, then secure the wrong engine (Harvey told me that engine of the plane, (the one that never hit the Pentagon) and was never found at the Pentagon turned out to be the wrong engine, when it was found for the plane that was then also found at the Pentagon (don’t worry, it made sense to Harvey).
Wow they were busy guys.
That was also probably Cheney, on the Grassy Knoll in Dallas; you know the three ‘hoboes’ and likely he planted the pristine bullet at Parkland.
You might want to be careful Peter; his people are probably monitoring this site. Have you noticed any vans parked by your house lately?
DDL:
Enjoy yourself, I no longer have ears for your simplistic degrading of others who don’t share your right-wing tripe…If Cheney is your kind of political figure and moral compass, enjoy his legacy. – pb
Liberal-Humanist” instead of “Liberal/Socialist”…. Rhyming patterns will be next…stay tuned–Peter Bray
Liberal Humanist, I like the sound of that Peter…………. check your e-mail
DDL: Thanks, I was referring to myself and no one else, Livesay thinks we’re all welfare rats under his definitions…he does NOT compute nor even cipher well—pb
Again Peter no solutions. Just a lot of words. Just try one. How about your take on fracking. We all now know it works. Many more tech ideas to make it even safer and cleaner. Now that is working in the right direction. Look for it to happen in California. Oh I forgot you do not read my comments.
Bob L.:
So just what are those chemicals you’re advocating be pumped into the earth to provoke “fracking?” The same ones that former VP Dick Cheney said did NOT need to be registered with the EPA because they were “proprietary?” I suggest you buy rent or at least view the film “Gasland” before you reinvest your troubled pesos in another scheme that places ignited natural gas in kitchen sink taps in other locations…Mankind has the limited intelligence to look in a closet for the lights to the street…Go figure–pb
All I suggest Peter is do the research first. I will not do it for you. then make your decision on who to blame not before you have done the homework.. Read the article.
So just what are those chemicals………. The same ones that ……….did NOT need to be registered with the EPA because they were “proprietary?”
Very good point that, thus far, has gone ignored.
Peter,
The COLORADO OIL AND GAS CONSERVATION COMMISSION MISSION confirmed that the water faucet example was biogenic in origin and unrelated to fracking.
But I am sure that will not be good enough for the anti fracking frackers.
BOB LIVESAY: You’re a waste of my time! Go watch “Gasland, The Movie” See the real evidence behind Fracking and the crap and volume of chemicals they’re pumping into the ground for each well–I refuse to quibble with your one isolated case–You’re a facade of hopeless, disingenuous dribble. Enough of your self-indulgent tripe! You are pathetic.—PB
You really are not paying attention, Peter, nor did you look at what I directed you towards.
Gasland has been debunked as loaded with BS, much like the once admired, now fired academy award winning man-bear-pig-VP
“Gasland has been debunked” — not by credible sources. Betcha I can debunk your debunkers.
“Man-bear-pig-VP” — really? You of all people should steer clear of this avenue of attack.
Well real Am,erican nice to see you back from your vacation. Now do as you say and debunk the debunkers. Looking forward to seeing that comment. Please Real American stay civil and no attacks.
“Now do as you say and debunk the debunkers.” Ball is in DDL’s court. And as for staying civil Bob that is entirely up to you. You reap what you sow.
Sorry vacation real American you said it not DDL. Do not try to move your comment to someone else. Just give us your answer that you said “Betcha I can debunk your debunkers”. I do believe you said that not DDL. So we will all be waiting. Sort of nice to have you back from your vacation.
Bob, you are SO slow on the uptake. I can’t debunk his debunkers until he tells me who his debunkers are. So I will wait patiently for this information — though I have a good idea what’s coming — and thank you to stay out of our tete-a-tete.
I do believe Mike I do not take orders from you. Just answer the questions or take anotrher vacation. You act just ike your beloved Prersident Obama. Blame others for your failures.
I do believe Bob I do not take orders from you. You can’t even get my name right. I’m just waiting on information so we can proceed with this discussion. You bumble along and pick fights. Now who’s responsible for the negative direction of this thread?
RA Stated: You of all people should steer clear of this avenue of attack.
Care to elaborate on that snideness?
Is that really necessary?
Is real American a he or a she? Is Real American in fact Mike? Now just come clean he/she Real American. The vote is already in. Your are Mike. So as you see Mike we know who you are. No real mystery there at all.
“No real mystery there at all.” We are all familiar with the quality of your conclusions. But thanks for this latest example.
Confirmed you are Mike. No doubt about it. Nice try Mike. No negative direction. Just making sure the rest of the folks know who you are. Mike with no last name. The poll was tasken at the reading room. Confirmed twenty to zero. You are Mike. Can all those folks be wrong?
Not Mike. “Can all those folks be wrong?” Apparently. Who cares?
What’s the reading room? Is that where you’re learning to read?
Come clean Bob, you’re really an angry unicorn aren’t you? Prove that you aren’t.
See, Bob Livesay, not everybody sees you as Mr. Polite & Swell…pb
Well Peter and Mike is does not take much to get you two on the defence. You know exactly what I mean. Not the one in your back yard. I love it when I get the Liberal Socialist going. If you are not Mike are you Mrs. Mike?
Bob: Your life must be boring as a dirt ball to be so F’ing juvenile—Enjoy your sophomoric board game–pb
Now we see the value of Bob Livesay’s calls for civility.
Come clean Mike or you will be forever considered a fake.
Tell me who is on “The Colorado Oil & Gas Conservation Commission Mission” and describe their various interests, Dennis. That will be more interesting to note than the fact that some faucet-water methane is biogenic, as may be the old case out in Pittsburg, as in Diane Lando’s yard and kitchen!
It that Pa. or Ca.
That’s the kind of halfwitted response one expects of you, B.L.
Robert which is it.?
Tell me who is on “The Colorado Oil & Gas Conservation Commission Mission”
Well if you ask Peter he will probably tell you it is Dick Cheney.
DDL:
You and Livesay have lost all credibility if you ever had any. Continue on with your adolescent exchanges, if i need any OLD Tripe, I’ll ask a third-world butcher to find me some–Boring! –pb
http://cogcc.state.co.us/General/201211_CommissionersBios.pdf
Thanks enviropro,
I counted at least three and likely four Democrats out of nine people. Bob makes a good point, probably a pretty shady group, one not to be trusted.
OK. Whatever gets you through the night.
Well Peter at least I did not call you pathetic. Lets just face it Peter you do not like me. But you know me so well. My issue has never been with you. It is with the Liberal Socialist. So I guess if you fall into that area I do have a problem with your politics not you personally. So be it Pedro.
Bobbie, if such simple mindedness gets you through the night, just stay with it. As long as you believe in your own brilliance and the holiness of the GOP, keep your eyes shut and your head closed. Would that you would also keep your mouth closed and keyboard quiet.
Robert I enjoy the back and forth with you Liberal Socialist. It keeps me very open on just what this country is facing. No praying, No Anthem, No Flag. All you Liberal Socialist want is a free press run by the Liberal Socialist. No talk radio, no guns, no economy, you name it your favorite word is no. Keep your eye on the oil boom all over this country and for sure in California. Now Peter remember your promise no comment back because you do not read what I write.